10 Preview r2840 - Quality of Life 3

Archived development update discussion from past versions
Archived development updates.
advalencia
Posts: 37

Post by advalencia » 07-22-14 8:34 pm

When I create a loop beginning on the first measure, the score that keeps the number of errors I've had is reset on each loop.

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 07-22-14 9:53 pm

Yeah, I caught that a few minutes after QoL3 went up. I fixed it for the next preview. Sorry!

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 07-23-14 3:10 am

iPad version

The in-game score box in the upper right of the falling notes is drawn 1 pixel (?) lower when the count turns orange as an error is added.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 07-23-14 3:18 am

advalencia wrote:I've been trying the new version, haven't seen any bugs yet.
I really like the idea of waiting before loops feature, but it throws off my timing, could it be changed to number of beats instead of a free in between cycle? if you can keep the metronome running during the pause that would be even better.
Is it possible to make the letter grades optional?
Thanks a lot for the awesome work.
Agree that loop delay should be an integral number of beats. Seems like one measure is the max? I think it should be two measures max.

Agree that the metronome needs to keep going.

The glitch on zero delay seems to be gone.

Maybe there should be an option to pause at the start of each loop until any key is played.

Should the start of a loop act as a bookmark so you can jump to a loop in a song?

How about a check box to disable a loop without clearing it so you can try playing the whole song and then go back to practicing the loop?
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 07-23-14 12:35 pm

jimhenry wrote:The in-game score box in the upper right of the falling notes is drawn 1 pixel (?) lower when the count turns orange as an error is added.
Do you mean the little shimmy demonstrated at 2:18 in the video from the QoL 1 preview?
jimhenry wrote:Maybe there should be an option to pause at the start of each loop until any key is played.
Would having the maximum delay at two measures like you suggested be enough to no longer need this? It sounds a little bit like bringing a tiny slice of melody practice into rhythm practice.
jimhenry wrote: Should the start of a loop act as a bookmark so you can jump to a loop in a song?

How about a check box to disable a loop without clearing it so you can try playing the whole song and then go back to practicing the loop?
I like both of those.

For the first: should there just be a dedicated "go to start of loop" shortcut binding? Should loop bounds respond to the next/prev bookmark shortcuts? Both?

For the second: especially now that loops are saved, having a key to toggle whether a loop is enabled would be helpful.

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 07-23-14 5:58 pm

Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:The in-game score box in the upper right of the falling notes is drawn 1 pixel (?) lower when the count turns orange as an error is added.
Do you mean the little shimmy demonstrated at 2:18 in the video from the QoL 1 preview?
Yes. I now understand that you think it is a feature but I still think it looks like a bug. If you get multiple errors it just draws attention to a box that can't be read, at least not at a glance. Good idea (?) to try to call attention to the score box when there is an error but I don't think shaking the box is the best way to do it. Also, there should be an easy way to turn the attention feature off as I am sure some people are not going to like a distraction right at the moment they are having trouble with the music.
Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:Maybe there should be an option to pause at the start of each loop until any key is played.
Would having the maximum delay at two measures like you suggested be enough to no longer need this? It sounds a little bit like bringing a tiny slice of melody practice into rhythm practice.
No, I don't think a longer delay is a substitute for a "loop on demand feature". This would not be like melody practice because I would expect it to be used along with a delay so that you would be stopped before a count-in to the loop where there isn't a note waiting to be played. This is for people who want to stop indefinitely between loops for any number of reasons. Major example, for use in a teacher-student situation where the teacher wants the loop to stop to allow an opportunity to provide feedback before the student tries the loop again.

I chose "play any key" to start the loop because I am not a fan of key bindings in general and especially not on the iPad where I have no keyboard and a piano with no buttons available to control anything extra. As I think about it, I think this could be generalized to pause before starting a loop or a song and then use any key to start playing the song or loop. Maybe use key bindings but permit "any note" as a key binding?

Should this same key binding even allow starting the song from screens that provide the "Song>" button in the upper right?
Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote: Should the start of a loop act as a bookmark so you can jump to a loop in a song?
Should there just be a dedicated "go to start of loop" shortcut binding? Should loop bounds respond to the next/prev bookmark shortcuts? Both?
I don't think there needs to be a dedicated "go to start of loop". I'm a simple minded guy. I just use the "fast forward" button on the screen and I just want it to jump ahead to the next logical stopping point, either a bookmark or the start of a loop.

You might want to consider a Simplicity of Life release where you look with a critical eye at every feature and ask whether it is really needed. I think there have been a lot of features that Synthesia has acquired over the years because a few people thought they would be "nice to have". Some of those may now be covered by later features. Some may not have worked out in practice. Some may be amenities that only a few people use and wouldn't miss too badly. When you start writing the manual, I think some of these types of things might become apparent.

Swiss Army knives are fun to look at but if I am actually going to be carrying something to use out in the woods, I'd rather have something that just gives me what I need without the extra complexity. Adding a plethora of features to solve every user request is relatively easy. Doing an elegant design that satisfies most user requests with a minimal number of features is more difficult but ultimately more satisfactory.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

advalencia
Posts: 37

Post by advalencia » 07-24-14 8:43 am

When I ace a song for the first time, at least according to the score breakdown, it only gives me 11/35 on the big box, is it because is trying to average the best 3 performances? is this the intended behavior?

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 07-27-14 4:58 pm

jimhenry wrote:... to a box that can't be read, at least not at a glance.
What do you mean? Is the font too small? That box is there specifically to be read at a glance and it sounds like it's not doing its job.
jimhenry wrote:This is for people who want to stop indefinitely between loops for any number of reasons.
Doesn't the typical pause function (a quick double-tap anywhere in the falling note area) solve all of those reasons? A pre-loop pause sounds an awful lot like a "feature that Synthesia has acquired over the years because a few people thought they would be 'nice to have'..." especially when it's not just covered by later features, but earlier ones.
jimhenry wrote:Maybe use key bindings but permit "any note" as a key binding?
I like this.
advalencia wrote:When I ace a song for the first time, at least according to the score breakdown, it only gives me 11/35 on the big box, is it because is trying to average the best 3 performances? is this the intended behavior?
Yes. Those big numbers are designed to be monotonically increasing, where the bar is set at three great attempts before Synthesia says something akin to "you're ready to move on".

Although I had a chance recently to take a look at Rocksmith and I really like the way they do things with adaptive difficulty. The first time you play a song, only some of the notes are there to play. So the percentage you see afterward is a combination of how many you hit for how many were actually there. Each time you play (assuming you're improving) more notes show up. You eventually reach 100% when you hit all the notes at the hardest level of play when all the notes are actually there.

That would be an improvement over the way Synthesia does it today.

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jimhenry
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Post by jimhenry » 07-27-14 8:44 pm

Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:... to a box that can't be read, at least not at a glance.
What do you mean? Is the font too small? That box is there specifically to be read at a glance and it sounds like it's not doing its job.
If the text is shimmying up and down it is hard to read.
Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:This is for people who want to stop indefinitely between loops for any number of reasons.
Doesn't the typical pause function (a quick double-tap anywhere in the falling note area) solve all of those reasons? A pre-loop pause sounds an awful lot like a "feature that Synthesia has acquired over the years because a few people thought they would be 'nice to have'..." especially when it's not just covered by later features, but earlier ones.
Touche. I think you're right. That is feature creep.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

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jimhenry
Posts: 1815
Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 08-01-14 2:36 pm

There are errors in the fingering for Fur Elise (easy):
measure 3, D is 1 s/b 2
measure 8, C is 1 s/b no hint
repeat
measure 3, D is no hint s/b 2
measure 7, D is 5 s/b 2

Also, there is a one beat pickup that is not being correctly shown, presumably because the MIDI file doesn't code it correctly.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 08-03-14 2:46 pm

Thanks. I just fixed the finger hints; that will be in the next build.

Fixing the pickup measure would be a change to the MIDI file itself, which would disassociate scores, performances, and online scoreboard results. So if I'm going to break it, I'd sooner wait until a bigger change like the MusicXML'ification of the whole set coming in Synthesia 11. That's probably a better time for it.

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 08-08-14 11:03 am

The loop setting screen display is difficult to use.

Hiding notes outside of the loop is not helpful.

The controls obscure most of the notes in the loop.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 08-08-14 6:01 pm

jimhenry wrote:The loop setting screen display is difficult to use.
Do you mean the loop controls overlay? Which part is difficult? How could it be better?
jimhenry wrote:Hiding notes outside of the loop is not helpful.
Do you mean you don't like seeing the upcoming, repeated notes that belong to the next loop iteration? Would you prefer the old style where you can't see what's actually coming up? I'm almost sure I misunderstood.

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 08-08-14 8:26 pm

Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:The loop setting screen display is difficult to use.
jimhenry wrote:Hiding notes outside of the loop is not helpful.
Do you mean you don't like seeing the upcoming, repeated notes that belong to the next loop iteration? Would you prefer the old style where you can't see what's actually coming up? I'm almost sure I misunderstood.
I think you missed that both comments are only for the process of SETTING the loop points. I don't like being unable to see what is outside the loop as it is being set. Do I want to include those notes I can't see? :?

IS:
2840_Loop_setting_1_sm.png
2840_Loop_setting_1_sm.png (49.41 KiB) Viewed 15431 times
SHOULD BE:
2840_Loop_setting_2_sm.png
2840_Loop_setting_2_sm.png (54.38 KiB) Viewed 15431 times
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 08-08-14 8:34 pm

Ah ha! Yes, that makes more sense now. Yeah, I think when you're in loop editing mode, it should show notes using normal, not-looped time. Then, when you pop out of editing mode, it can show them looped. I'll fix that.

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 08-09-14 12:45 am

Nicholas wrote:
jimhenry wrote:The loop setting screen display is difficult to use.
Do you mean the loop controls overlay? Which part is difficult? How could it be better?
Maybe something like this? Added buttons for adjusting by beat as well as by measure, which in addition to keeping all the notes visible. (Didn't have time to figure out what to do with delay between loops. Can that just be measures between loops--0, 1, or 2?)
2840_Loop_setting_3.png
2840_Loop_setting_3.png (40.62 KiB) Viewed 15425 times
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 08-09-14 9:11 am

I was thinking more about reusing some of the keyboard space. While you're setting up a loop, the keys aren't being used at all. (Granted, if you use the drag handle to partially or fully hide the keyboard, the loop controls will still appear in the falling note area, but there will still be that much more screen real estate left.) But something like a drawer that rolls out from the bottom of the screen with controls might be a nice visual indicator. I could adopt that motif for each of the pause modes (bookmarks, finger hints, etc.) instead of randomly floating buttons here-and-there.

And like you're suggesting, some compaction of those controls is possible. They've grown a little crufty over time. There has got to be a smaller way to do loop delay -- probably by turning it into an integer number of measures, like you said.

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jimhenry
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Location: Illinois

Post by jimhenry » 08-09-14 10:54 am

Good point about the keyboard space being available. We agree that sharing the note display with the loop setting controls is not a good choice.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

kiwi
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1178

Post by kiwi » 08-18-14 8:33 am

The score box shaking need to have an "off option" it can be really disturbing and the red color is enought.
Also for the stock rythm in freeplay we need a little more do you want some maid by me to be included?
Where they are located? (for to try to add new ones?)

Nicholas
Posts: 12440

Post by Nicholas » 08-21-14 6:05 am

kiwi wrote:... it can be really disturbing...
That is the point. :lol: (If you click the score box to shimmy it off to the right, does that diminish the effect enough?)
kiwi wrote:Where they are located? (for to try to add new ones?)
For now they're embedded in the app. It's a little inconvenient to modify/add them in Windows. If you've got a Mac handy, you can just look inside the App folder with a right-click. They're the "beat44_rock1", "beat34_rockWaltz1", etc. named MIDI files in resources.

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